Gregory Spawton from Big Big Train joins us for some thoughts on the band’s The Likes Of Us album and more.
So – ‘The journey continues…’ – how do you think the new album shows the evolution of Big Big Train.
‘The Likes Of Is’ is, of course, our first album with Alberto as lead singer so, it will inevitably sound like a new departure for BBT. However, we approached the writing for this album very carefully as we all felt very strongly that the songs needed to honour the tradition of the band’s musical heritage. So, I don’t think listeners need to feel worried that things will be completely different.
You’ve been quoted as saying: “I always need somebody to bounce ideas off.” While it’s impossible to replace the musical connection you had with David Longdon, how have you adapted?
There have been several key musical partners in my life. I’ve always functioned best when I’ve had strong partners, people that can build on my songwriting and help to bring songs to fruition. For many years, of course, that partner was Andy Poole. We stuck together through thick and thin and kept the band going when it seemed, at times, a pointless exercise.
David came into my life in 2009 when he joined the band to make The Underfall Yard album and, initially, we formed a strong three-way partnership. But Andy, for whatever reason, was getting ready to move away from music. He seemed to want to retire early and enjoy a less stressful life. Meanwhile, David and I had become very close and I assumed we’d be making music together for as long as we both wanted to. And alongside David, Nick D’Virgilio and Rikard Sjöblom had become dear friends and partners so I had such a strong musical family. Fate, of course, then intervened in a devastating way when we lost David in 2021.
After a lot of deep thinking and long conversations with NDV, Rikard, Clare Lindley, Oskar Holldorff and Dave Foster, we decided to try to pick up the pieces and see if we could find the right vocalist to keep the band going. And, honestly, that is all I was looking for, someone with a great voice and the potential to be our frontman. What we found instead was someone who could not only deliver the voice and frontman role but who also had a great interest in engaging with the nitty gritty of BBT: the writing, the production, the vibe, for want of a better word. Somebody who was hungry to make a positive difference. So, to come back to your question, adapting was much easier than any of us expected because Alberto brings so many things to Big Big Train.
Making the new music together in one a room must have been a pleasure in these days of using technology to communicate. There’s mention of “generating moments of inspiration that might not otherwise have happened.” Can you highlight any particular examples of these?’
Absolutely. We only had a week booked at the studio and we’re not a blues band: we knew we weren’t going to be jamming stuff and trying to force things to happen. So, we all arrived prepared – knowing the chords and arrangements for each song – but also with an attitude that we would be happy to try out ideas on the spot. I remember one section in Beneath The Masts where I could hear what we were playing differently. I brought the song to a halt in mid-flow and suggested we try to rework a section to give it more of a dynamic build. Because we were eyeball to eyeball it took two minutes to talk it through, maybe ten minutes of playing to check it worked and then that whole section was sorted and much stronger. There were several moments like that.
‘Beneath The Masts’ is a stunning track. One that you’re personally attached to, and with a finale that sends chills. Do you kind of ‘know’ when the track is being written and coming together that you have a significant one on your hands?
It did feel during the writing process that there was a lot of potential in that song. But sometimes songs get away from you, so you never really know until the band get their teeth into it. In fact, it wasn’t until the final vocal session that we felt the song had reached its full potential.
The middle instrumental section is pretty wild. Possibly the heaviest BBT have been? That must have been fun! Did you feel you were pushing the boundaries a bit there?
That section was written by NDV and we were very excited when we heard it for the first time as we felt it was pushing our sound a bit. We had discussed at the writing stage that it would be nice to get the electric guitars out a bit more for this album and I can see us doing more of that in the future.
Could you comment on the focus on more personal direction in the lyrics.
The band has been through some tough times with the loss of our friend David. And, as individuals, we have all faced some difficult challenges of our own, as everyone does at one time or another. With all that in mind, it just didn’t seem right to be going down our traditional third party story-telling route for this album. In the end, we did include one song which tells a historical story and I am sure we will return to that way of writing as a main focus in the future. But right now, it had to be a personal album.
The perspective on things like ‘Last Eleven’ – being an outsider – I think you’ve talked of your own schooldays impacting on that lyric, but is it a shared experience with the band?
We’ve talked this through and we have all had moments in our life where we have felt like outsiders. I think pretty much everyone does, even those who seem to be the cool kids.
You had that track in the can around 18 months ago – did it get any re-tweaks at all?
Absolutely. The album version is a completely new recording. Furthermore, we’d played the song live a few times after the first recording of Last Eleven was released, as an introduction to Alberto, so we’d learnt from those performances. It might be fun to tour an album before recording it one day, as we’d learn more about the songs along the way. It might be a bit hard on the audience though!
The Carpe Diem philosophy of ‘Skates On’ and living for today – is that possibly even an age thing as time catches up with us all as we all head towards the inevitable!?
Definitely age, but also experience. You can be lucky in life and get into old age before you start losing the people around you that matter to you. Or, you can be young and lose loved ones, it can happen at any time. The lesson my wife, Kathy, and I have learnt is to do our best to experience things, to extract the most from each day while we can.
Different parts of the album – lyrics, visuals etc – remind me of the Elbow philosophy – build a rocket boys (might just be the space visuals I just watched on the Last Eleven video!). Is there a bit of a train of thought that’s about reflecting on childhood and friendship (ie, on Bookmarks)?
Guy Garvey’s lyrics are a huge influence on me. When I read the words to the song, Build A Rocket Boys, I just thought: ‘this is my childhood he is describing here’. The other words of his that directly inspired some of the lyrics on The Likes Of Us are from the Elbow song Dear Friends. In that song he talks about his friends being the stars he navigates home by. I couldn’t have got by in recent years without my friends, many of them from my old hometown of Sutton Coldfield. They were there for me when I needed them and they are referenced in Bookmarks and Beneath The Masts.
I may be wildly off track, but possibly spotted a few recurring little themes. Skates on crops up a couple of times, there are cricketing analogies at both ends of the album…
That’s all absolutely bang on. It’s not a concept album, but it is an album with a number of recurring themes, both musical and lyrical. We wanted to make an album with some depth to it, not just a collection of different songs.
The At The Barrier team are regular visitors to Cropredy and delighted that you’re on the bill in August. We/I saw David (and Judy Dyble) there a few years back so there are probably some connections in the Crop DNA. What are your thoughts about performing there and your impressions and knowledge of Cropredy?
With the exception of one acoustic performance in Cumbria for Francis Dunnery’s charity, the only festivals we’ve played so far have been very much prog rock festivals, so Cropredy will be interesting as it will be a different audience for us. We love prog rock but we think our material can be enjoyed more widely so it will be interesting to see how we do there. It probably isn’t a festival where we will play too many 15 minute tracks!
Probably a bit off topic, but Kingmaker is set to publish the new book on the Prog revival of the early Eighties. I’ve loved the Mario Giammetti Genesis books and of course Grant Moon’s BBT bio. Very much looking forward to this one as it was a period I lived through! Are you of the same vintage!?
Well, you touch there on the only other work I do outside of music, which is the book publishing company I founded with BBT manager Nick Shilton. For many years I have wanted a book to be published about the 80’s prog scene, which was very important to me and other contemporary artists, including Steven Wilson. So, with some very good books focusing on 70’s prog rock and on specific bands, but with nothing being published which focused on that 80’s scene, we commissioned a writer – Andrew Wild – to tell the story. Andrew took up the challenge, has tracked down most of the key individuals in and around the bands and carried out 80 interviews. So, it’s a detailed analysis of the scene, told over two books (one to be published this year and one next). I’ve edited the books and took part in some of the interviews and I am very proud to be involved.
Our huge thanks to Gregory for taking the time in a busy schedule that’s seen not only the BBT album release and his involvement in the Kingmaker publishing arm (a new book coming very soon…) but also with the band’s first US dates and Cruise To The Edge.
Big Big Train online: Website / Facebook / Twitter / Soundcloud / Youtube
Keep up with At The Barrier: Facebook / X (formerly Twitter) / Instagram / Spotify / YouTube